In Episode 8 of the Mindful Wealth Podcast, Jonathan and I had the opportunity to interview Kabir Helminski, Sufi Sheikh and spiritual leader. I’ve been a fan of Kabir’s work for a long time. His books Holistic Islam, Living Presence , The Knowing Heart  are a great introductions to the tradition of Sufism specifically, and (in my opinion) sign-posts on the path to spiritual development more generally. I can personally attest to the value of his 99-day program Introduction to Sufism program .

As a side-note, one of the great parts of running this podcast is doing Q&A with ones intellectual and spiritual heroes, but I digress!

Let me share two interview-highlights with you. 

EVERYTHING IMPORTANT IS INVISIBLE

When we asked Kabir about his definition of “True Wealth”, he responded by saying:

“Everything truly important is invisible… There are no things that really matter, apart from basic livelihood shelter, sustenance and necessities of life. [Of real value are] invisible things like friendship, love, empathy, forgiveness. 

“Take the intangible ideal of integrity. What if you could have whatever you want? What if you could manipulate your way into controlling your environment, people, and satisfying all your desires but you didn’t have integrity? What would it all amount to?”

That’s some serious food for thought in how we go about pursuing our material- and status-related objectives, and indeed in what we pursue in the first place. If everything important is invisible, how much time do we spend pursuing and fetishising material objects that ultimately have no value in and of themselves?  

MINDFULNESS VS. HEARTFULNESS

The other highlight of this episode for me was Kabir’s challenge that instead of mindfulness – which amounts to a kind of hyper-awareness as ultimate goal – we may want to cultivate a thing he calls heartfulness. Developing the human heart, not just awareness, is the ultimate spiritual goal. 

“We’re talking about more than a mental experience [when we talk about spiritual development].”

He challenges us to question for what purpose we might pursue pure awareness, or mindfulness, if it is not tempered with love and compassion.

“If the awareness you have doesn’t melt you in love,” he asks us. “Is it complete or is it just awareness?”

“Awareness is a tool,” he suggests. He prefers the word presence (hence the book Living Presence ). “Everything that a human being can attain and aspire to attain is attained through presence. It is not moving in the direction of abstraction, of some impersonal enlightenment or complete detached equanimity.”

If we are to attain what is truly important, Kabir suggests to us, we had better follow the path of heartfulness, or developing the human capacity for love. That, for Kabir, defines true wealth and brings us closer to the divine. True value is not to be found in things. 

Everything important is invisible.  

WHAT TO LEARN MORE?

Listen to the podcast here or watch the full interview on youtube [link in the sidebar above]